Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/12/1993 09:05 AM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                
                         March 12, 1993                                        
                            9:05 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Senator Loren Leman, Chairman                                                
  Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chairman                                           
  Senator Johnny Ellis                                                         
  Senator Jim Duncan                                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Robin Taylor                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 11                                    
  "An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."                   
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 1                                                            
  "An Act relating  to retirement  incentive programs for  the                 
  public   employees'   retirement   system,   the   teachers'                 
  retirement system,  and certain  persons under  the judicial                 
  retirement system; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
  SB 11 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/24/93/                             
                                                                               
  SB 1 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/3/93 and 2/26/93.                   
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Margo Knuth                                                                  
  Department of Law                                                            
  P.O. Box 110300                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on CS SSSB 11.                                 
                                                                               
  Jerry Luckhaupt                                                              
  Legislative Legal Counsel                                                    
  130 Seward Street                                                            
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-2105                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on CS SSSB 11.                                
                                                                               
  Bill Kelder, Staff                                                           
  Senator Kerttula                                                             
  Capitol Bldg.                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-1802                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on CS SSSB 11.                                
                                                                               
  Brian Davidson                                                               
  P.O. Box 1765                                                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Bethel, Alaska 99559                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CS SSSB 11.                                   
                                                                               
  Mike McQuary                                                                 
  2301 Peger Road                                                              
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99775                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CS SSSB 11.                                   
                                                                               
  Wendy Redman, Vice President                                                 
  University Relations                                                         
  University of Alaska Fairbanks                                               
  910 Yukon Dr.                                                                
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99775                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CS SSSB 11.                                   
                                                                               
  Robert Collins                                                               
  P.O. Box 505                                                                 
  Kotzebue, Alaska 99752                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CS SSSB 11.                                   
                                                                               
  Barry Haight                                                                 
  991 Vail View Dr.                                                            
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99712                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  Kathy Weltzin                                                                
  P.O. Box 210665                                                              
  Auke Bay, Alaska 99821                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 1.                                          
                                                                               
  Dennis Gellhouse                                                             
  3044 Woodduck Ave.                                                           
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  Faye Bain                                                                    
  ASEA                                                                         
  9000 Firndale                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  Jim Bolejano, Union Representative                                           
  Cook Inlet Pretrial                                                          
  Department of Corrections                                                    
  P.O. Box 103155                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99510                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  Shane Ruattila                                                               
  ASEA, Local 52                                                               
  3431 Wiley Post Lp.                                                          
  Anchorage, Alaska 99517                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Gary Sampson                                                                 
  ASEA                                                                         
  P.O. Box 1348                                                                
  Seward, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  Roxanne Stewart, Staff                                                       
  Senator Duncan                                                               
  Capitol Bldg.                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 1.                                         
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-19, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 001                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN  LEMAN called  the  Senate State  Affairs Committee                 
  meeting   to  order  at  9:05   a.m.  and  announced  SB  11                 
  ANTI-STALKING LAW to be up for consideration.                                
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt the CS to SSSB 11.  There were                 
  no objections and it was so ordered.                                         
                                                                               
  MARGO KNUTH, Department of Law, said the CS targets the same                 
  conduct as SSSB 11 targeted.  It does it in the framework of                 
  the  elements  in existing  assault  statutes. It  creates a                 
  misdemeanor offense of  stalking in the second  degree which                 
  is  knowingly  engaging in  a  course of  conduct recklessly                 
  placing another in fear of death  or physical injury.  There                 
  are several ways  stalking can be  aggravated into a  felony                 
  offense. The  most significant is acts that are in violation                 
  of probation, release, or a temporary restraining order.                     
                                                                               
  The terms are defined specifically in this bill with Alaskan                 
  statutes in mind.                                                            
                                                                               
  The only way the  CS for SSSB 11 differs  significantly from                 
  HB 64,  MS.  KNUTH explained,  is it  explicitly creates  an                 
  affirmative defense for constitutionally  protected conduct.                 
  The purpose of the affirmative defense is to assure this law                 
  is  not  used to  try  to  chill peoples  exercise  of their                 
  constitutional rights,  like a public demonstration in front                 
  of an abortion clinic, for instance.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 100                                                                   
                                                                               
  An  issue raised by  the affirmative  defense is  who should                 
  decide  whether  the person's  conduct  was constitutionally                 
  protected or not  and juries  are not trained  to make  that                 
  determination, MS. KNUTH said.   She would prefer to  see it                 
  as a question of  law for the court to decide  since that is                 
  their area of expertise.  She suggested adding the language,                 
  "Whether  an  act  of the  defendant  is  a constitutionally                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  protected activity is a question of  law to be determined by                 
  the court before trial."                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 148                                                                   
                                                                               
  JERRY  LUCKHAUPT,  who drafted  the  bill, explained  that a                 
  provision excluding constitutionally protected  conduct does                 
  arise in most  stalking laws.   The terroristic  threatening                 
  law,  because  that was  a  basic  form of  assault  type of                 
  offense, was moved  into assault.   The CS  also removed  an                 
  existing  relationship requirement  between  the victim  and                 
  defendant  for  arrest  without  a  warrant  for  the  basic                 
  stalking offense, MR. LUCKHAUPT said.  It also specified  in                 
  Section 6 that the  court may put restrictions on  a release                 
  of the defendant.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  In  Section 7  the court  cannot suspend  the  imposition of                 
  sentence of a person convicted of assault.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 251                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR ELLIS asked  for a rationale  for the use of  arrest                 
  without  a  warrant  in  other  instances.    MR.  LUCKHAUPT                 
  explained that you can always arrest without a warrant for a                 
  felony offense  regardless of  whether is  was committed  in                 
  front of a  police officer or  not.  Traditionally, a  peace                 
  officer cannot arrest  without a  warrant for a  misdemeanor                 
  offense that was not  committed in his presence.   There are                 
  exceptions to that which usually involve some sort of danger                 
  to the public, like  drunk driving.  Stalking is  similar to                 
  the fourth degree threatened assault type behavior.                          
                                                                               
  Number 308                                                                   
                                                                               
  BILL KELDER, Staff for Senator Kerttula, agreed with most of                 
  the changes  in the CS  because it made  a better bill.   He                 
  added that he was confused about  what they were going to do                 
  with Ms. Knuth's  suggested language, although he  did agree                 
  with it.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 324                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR  MILLER asked what  happens if the  jury decides the                 
  activity is  constitutionally protected.   MS. KNUTH replied                 
  that the most significant feature of what they are proposing                 
  is that  the jury  is  not going  to  be instructed  on  the                 
  constitutional defense.   If they are not  instructed on it,                 
  nothing would prompt them to make that consideration.  Under                 
  this bill, the judge would make that decision.                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER said he had no problem with this if the judge                 
  were neutral, but  if he  weren't neutral on  the issue,  he                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  would have trouble.   MS. KNUTH said the judge  would either                 
  make the statement  to the jury that  it is constitutionally                 
  protected or he is silent on it.  The jury would not be told                 
  there is a defense of constitutional activity.                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR  MILLER  commented that  it  probably wouldn't  be a                 
  problem in this state where we have appointed judges.                        
                                                                               
  Number 399                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN asked if the judge determined the activity was                 
  constitutionally protected would it go to trial or would the                 
  case be dismissed?  MS. KNUTH said that would  depend on the                 
  circumstances.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 415                                                                   
                                                                               
  BRIAN DAVIDSON, Bethel,  supported the  CS to SSSB  11.   He                 
  said  he works  in a shelter  for women  who are  victims of                 
  domestic violence and assault.  There is a common perception                 
  among  these women that  the law  is sometimes  powerless to                 
  help  them.   This  legislation  would  go far  to  give law                 
  enforcement additional powers to protect  the members of the                 
  community.                                                                   
                                                                               
  He  wanted the  committee  to keep  "stalker" as  opposed to                 
  "terroristic  threatening."   He supported arrest  without a                 
  warrant by a law enforcement officer and the provisions that                 
  would aggravate stalking into a felony offense.                              
                                                                               
  Number 437                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER moved to pass CS  SSSB 11 from committee.  He                 
  then withdrew his motion.                                                    
                                                                               
  SENATOR DUNCAN moved to adopt the amendment suggested by the                 
  Department of Law.   SENATOR MILLER  objected saying he  was                 
  still uncomfortable   with  it.   SENATOR LEMAN  objected as                 
  well.                                                                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR DUNCAN withdrew his motion.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 452                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR  MILLER moved to discharge CS SSSB 11 from Committee                 
  with individual  recommendations.  There  were no objections                 
  and it was so ordered.                                                       
  SENATOR LEMAN announced SB 1 RETIREMENT INCENTIVE PROGRAM to                 
  be up for consideration.                                                     
  SENATOR LEMAN  brought SB  11 back before  the Committee  to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  receive testimony from Sergeant  James McCann in  Fairbanks.                 
  However, he had left after the discharge vote and so SENATOR                 
  LEMAN brought SB 1 back before the Committee.                                
  MIKE   MCQUARY,   Department  of   Transportation  equipment                 
  operator in Fairbanks, supported  SB 1, because there  was a                 
  high  rate of  injury on the  job and  a lot of  people were                 
  quitting  because they simply couldn't do the work any more.                 
  It's been proven  to be cost effective.   They are  losing a                 
  lot of people  through workmen's compensation and  they need                 
  to have new people who are able to work.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 504                                                                   
                                                                               
  WENDY REDMAN, Vice President, University Relations, strongly                 
  supported SB  1.  She said  the University was able  to show                 
  significant   savings  through   use  of   early  retirement                 
  incentive  programs.   They  anticipated  additional savings                 
  would  happen with the new program.  She pointed out that it                 
  was at the option of the employer which she thought was very                 
  important.  It  is a management  tool for providing  savings                 
  and organizational flexibility that is not available to them                 
  any other way.                                                               
                                                                               
  At  the  University they  have  developed senior  faculty in                 
  departments  where  demand has  decreased  and they  have no                 
  resources in some  departments where faculty is needed.  The                 
  only way to lay off  a professor is to eliminate the  entire                 
  department, she explained.                                                   
                                                                               
  Due to the slow economy there are decreases in hiring junior                 
  faculty so there  is kind of a buyer's market  when it comes                 
  to junior staffing.  If they could use the RIP now, it would                 
  put them in the extremely fortuitous position of  being able                 
  to replace the  older faculty  with a good  cadre of  junior                 
  faculty that is available at this point.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 557                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. REDMAN  opposed proposed amendments  1 and 2  because it                 
  would  eliminate   the  University  from   the  legislation.                 
  Proposed amendment 3 was alright with  them, because they do                 
  not  anticipate refilling more than 50%  of the positions at                 
  this  point.  She supported amendment 4 because it clarified                 
  the bill.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 578                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN asked if she could research the time period to                 
  show what the savings would be for a time period less than 5                 
  years.  MS. REDMAN said they could show savings from 3 years                 
  to 5 years.                                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-19, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 584                                                                   
                                                                               
  ROBERT COLLINS, Kotzebue,  supported SB 1, because  it would                 
  save the state  a lot of money  and solve a lot  of problems                 
  with eliminating  the work force  without a lot  of anguish.                 
  He commented that the figures on  people retiring at the age                 
  of 35 are  probably in reference  to state troopers who  can                 
  retire in 20 years any way.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 549                                                                   
                                                                               
  BARRY   HAIGHT,  volunteer  lobbyist  for  a  Public  Safety                 
  employee group in the Fairbanks  area, objected to amendment                 
  1,  because it  includes teachers,  but  not municipalities,                 
  political  subdivision, the University  of Alaska,  or state                 
  employees.  He objected to amendment  2 because it also left                 
  off  the  University  and  state   employees.    He  thought                 
  amendment 3 was an effort to accommodate state employees and                 
  should be considered.  Amendment 4 he strongly supported.                    
                                                                               
  Number 516                                                                   
                                                                               
  CATHY WELTZIN, Auke Bay, brought up  the human factor in the                 
  teaching profession.  A lot of times people are in jobs when                 
  they are  worn out and they  are staying there  for just one                 
  reason. This might be  a really nice way to "clean up" their                 
  profession.  This is a way to  let them go with grace and to                 
  bring on new educators who would be more flexible.                           
                                                                               
  Number 498                                                                   
                                                                               
  DENNIS  GELLHOUSE,  President,  ASEA,   supported  SB  1.  A                 
  legislative  audit  from November  1991  revealed the  state                 
  saved $23 million in the last program.  This program is good                 
  in a period of declining revenues.  The bill is written so a                 
  cost  savings must be established  before it is approved, so                 
  this is  not another  state give  away for  state employees.                 
  This is a way to save  the state money and humanely mitigate                 
  the impact of layoffs and unemployment.                                      
                                                                               
  MR. GELLHOUSE strongly objected  to amendments 1 and 2.   He                 
  did  not take  a position  on amendment  3 and had  not seen                 
  amendment 4.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 459                                                                   
                                                                               
  FAYE BAIN,  ASEA,  strongly supported  SB  1.   She  opposed                 
  amendments 1 and 2 which she described as an end run against                 
  the  state  employees, which  according  to her,  were being                 
  treated as a "subhuman species."                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN  commented that there  was no intent  to treat                 
  state employees as  subhuman, but the amendments  were there                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  to  work toward resolving issues  so the bill could possibly                 
  pass and become law.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 416                                                                   
                                                                               
  SHANE RUUTTILA, ASEA  Local 52, said in  his division people                 
  who were mostly  in their  late 50's took  advantage of  the                 
  program.  Not only would it be cost effective, but  it would                 
  increase productivity  and  service.   He  strongly  opposed                 
  amendment 1, because  it would exclude state employees.  The                 
  people who are  staying on  in the state  are passing  their                 
  dollars on to the people in the business community for goods                 
  and services.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 375                                                                   
                                                                               
  GARY SAMPSON, Corrections Representative on ASEA, said there                 
  are  approximately   1,000  employees  in   the  Corrections                 
  Department  that would be impacted  by this legislation.  He                 
  strongly  supported the legislation saying his department is                 
  looking at steep cuts to their  budget and the loss of  many                 
  jobs.  The people who will be  impacted are the ones who are                 
  just starting out and  perhaps they would have to  leave the                 
  state to find employment  elsewhere.  This would be  a great                 
  loss of potential  for the  state of Alaska.   Passing  this                 
  legislation  would  reduce  the government  payroll  by  not                 
  hurting those who  are just starting out, but  helping those                 
  persons who are prepared to retire.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 352                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR DUNCAN  moved to adopt amendment 4 which changes the                 
  window periods for municipal employees.                                      
                                                                               
  ROXANNE  STEWART,  Aide for  Senator  Duncan,  explained the                 
  window period  to  the Committee  which  was included  as  a                 
  specific response to  the concerns of the fire department in                 
  Fairbanks which could otherwise disappear on July 1.                         
                                                                               
  There were no objections and it was so moved.                                
                                                                               
  Regarding amendment 3,  SENATOR DUNCAN  said he believed  to                 
  have  a  comprehensive  piece of  legislation  that  has all                 
  public employees in it.  He would consider amendment 3 if it                 
  would help  move the  legislation along.   He was  concerned                 
  about  how restrictive it would  be on management to utilize                 
  the program to its fullest.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 311                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER offered amendment 3 for discussion purposes.                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR ELLIS  thought amendment 3  took responsibility away                 
  from the Hickel appointees to do their jobs.                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 295                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN  noted an  excerpt  from an  NCSL report  that                 
  said,  "It  is   difficult  to  obtain  real   savings  from                 
  retirement incentive programs  for state employees  and that                 
  control of replacements  is the  key to  savings.   Explicit                 
  accounting  for   all  costs   including  future  costs   to                 
  retirement  systems is essential."  He agreed with this idea                 
  and supported amendment  3 because  it had tighter  controls                 
  which  would   improve  the  chances   of  this  legislation                 
  succeeding.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 251                                                                   
                                                                               
  JIM BULGIANO, ASEA employee, Department of Corrections, said                 
  there needs to be some consideration for essential personnel                 
  in replacing only 50%  of the positions.  In  his department                 
  that  might  jeopardize  the safety  and  security  of their                 
  personnel.                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR DUNCAN said he appreciated  his concerns and thought                 
  they should look at defining essential employees.                            
                                                                               
  Number 228                                                                   
                                                                               
  SHANE RUUTTILA,  Division of Corrections,  opposed amendment                 
  3.  He said their case loads are some of the fastest growing                 
  in the nation.  They cannot afford to loose even one person.                 
  He thought there were some  divisions that just wouldn't  be                 
  able to operate under this amendment.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 204                                                                   
                                                                               
  There  were  no objections  to  amendment  3 and  it  was so                 
  ordered.                                                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER moved  to adopt amendment  5.  There were  no                 
  objections and it was so ordered.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 141                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR DUNCAN moved to pass the  State Affairs CS for SB  1                 
  with individual  recommendations. There  were no  objections                 
  and it was so ordered.                                                       
  SENATOR LEMAN adjourned the meeting at 10:30 a.m.                            
                                                                               

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